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fear the angry asian girls

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defy the model minority. perpetual foreigner. kung-fu
fighting. china doll. lotus blossom. dragon lady. we
speak english. we are not submissive. quiet. exotic. sex
objects. fuck the asian fetish. we will not love you long
time. asian is not oriental. we are not terrorists. we
don't have sars. asian is not white. don't assume we're
always straight. we are outspoken. progressive.
proactive. independent in thought and action. our
beauty is the union of our voices. not slanty eyes. we
are women of color. we fight for asian american
studies. we love yuri kochiyama. the big bad chinese
mama.we are yellow and we are brown. we are a
political construct. remember vincent chin. remember
granada. mazanar. minidoka. by the way, our men have
penises. big ones too.

If you don't know what any of those are, look them up. Credit for the above goes to the Wellesley Asian Alliance, which printed pink t-shirts with the text on the back.

I love it. I love it to pieces because it says so much about stereotypes of Asian women, stereotypes that -- surprise, surprise! -- the media perpetuates. That we self-perpetuate. It can be scary to have to talk in front of people. It can be terrifying to talk about racism or race, knowing that people are going to get defensive and insist they're not racist instead of listening to what you have to say. It makes sense to filter for other people of color if you want to just talk without having to fight. Having to fight can be tiring. Unfeminine. Culturally bad. Stereotype-shattering.

But this is one stereotype that I am heavily invested in shattering.

When was the last time you saw an image of an angry South Asian woman? I was looking for pictures for an RP I was in, and I couldn't find any.

Rai's last role in Provoked was about a woman that set her husband on fire for repeatedly raping/beating her, but she even did that with tears rolling down her cheeks. I have no idea why angry South Asian women are so threatening that they can't even be shown on screen but they do not get to be angry. They pout, they cry, they are dramatically beaten and angsty, but there's no anger. No rage. Even when they get revenge, they do it woefully.

It's okay for South Asian women to be victims, but not for them to stand up for themselves. I used to think it was a cultural problem, but I don't think it's just that. I've seen real women, real South Asian women, be passive-aggressive or just passive, but I've also seen them angry. But never in public. Never on TV. That would give them a bad reputation and it would go against the stereotype of Asian women being more docile than Western women.

After all, until relatively recently, people were still talking about widows throwing themselves onto their husbands' funeral pyres. Arranged marriages were common. Asian women didn't cheat on their husbands, right? They were happy to be housewives and treat their husbands with the proper level of respect.

That's why they're easy to fetishize. They're smaller, differently cultured and used to come from colonies. Asian women have exotic Karma Sutra-style ideas, but they also like to cook. Their culture is inferior to Western culture. They don't nag or push for marriage or make you buy them tampons. They will love you long time.

And right now, a lot of them probably think you're idiots for having bought into the media hype.

Asian women are women. Women are people. Asian women are people. And the stereotypes are going down.

The first one to die will be the idea that Asian women don't get angry, because we're here, we're angry, and we're not going to shut up.

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Bravo, that is one of the best written pieces I've read in YEARS! Bias aside it's moving to anger and tears. I've shared it with all my hall mates and so far consensus (from guys and girls, Asian or not) that it's right.

I love you so much right now :). You're a damned good writer <3.

You're a damned good writer <3.

Isn't she, though?

She can definitely convey her feelings through such a topic without coming off as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. AND have it interesting and informative.

Thanks for the compliments on my writing style, doll.

It's simply the truth, m'dear.

...Wow for exposure. XD Thanks for the feedback, Matt. I'm glad that it managed to get its message across.

And I love you a lot as well! Thank you for being so supportive and for understanding what I'm talking about, as well as sharing it with other people.

And right now, a lot of them probably think you're idiots for having bought into the media hype.
No wais!

I agree. :)

Yay!

...You know, I have very little clue as to the ethnicities of the people on my flist. I'm tempted to poll them to see what they say.

That would be interesting yes.

I wonder who'd respond, and if it would change the way that I think about them? *kind of curious*

Do it?

I think I will! It'll be what I do tomorrow, after trying to guess people's ethnicites based off what little I know of them from their journal posts.

...Though, um, I'm scared to do that in case I guess wrong and people want to kill me. Argh. >_

Good luck.

I hope you don't mind my sharing my opinion on this topic as well, here. If you do, just simply screen ^-^

--

I do have a question, though - which is hard to ask to most people without them jumping down your throat with some accusation - and mind you, I've been trying to sleep for over two hours and cannot - so sorry for any typos or... as usual, long-windedness.

My question is this - what about those that fit any particular stereotype because they want to and are sincerely happy with it. To be quite content and happy with certain roles that just so happen to be a stereotype - do you know of any like that whom may be uncomfortable discussing it because people will insult them for being a stereotype and claim they are not happy? I'm sure you're all for people's choice as themselves, but I'm wondering if you've witnessed this and how people have reacted to that sort of situation where they are told that they shouldn't? Is it more or less the same sort of reaction that's given when a stay at home mother is told to "be equal to a man and go work" to break the stereotype - or is it less talked about/acknowledged? *Is a curious little bugger that wants to know* ^_^

-- now to more of the post.

"It can be terrifying to talk about racism or race, knowing people are going to get defensive..." The thing about this, is that people sometimes forget, that it stands for every culture and race. I fear bringing up racial issues (be it against ANY race/culture) for being called a racist - while I KNOW everyone can be at some point (intentionally or not), I do not ever intend to be racist. Never have. But, I find myself having to bite my tongue unless I already know the person will understand my point of view. If I don't know the view, I'm afraid to speak. Afraid to have the "Who's had it worse!!11" argument - which to me, personally, doesn't help the issue of racism. Having a... what's it called.. "pissing contest" either makes matters worse or simply delays the fixing of the issue. So, instead of having to hear people assume that because I'm "white" that I "don't understand" or something equally negative (or wrong), I bite my tongue. I can't say I've been in other people's shoes any more than one can say of mine. So, I bite my tongue. Point being, I think it's sad that every race/culture has someone in it that feels the same way - and of those people, I'm sure most of them are those that wish to end it so that there are no such thing (or at least as little as possible).

"It makes sense to filter for other people of color" to me brings upon that same issue. It comes off (though, THAT post may not be - as I have not read through it, merely skimmed it as I am tired - and cranky from being unable to sleep xD, but I've seen it elsewhere where it does come off as such ) as the "People of Color" vs "White People". Not in a battle, no, but in the same sort of division that I would think "stopping racism" isn't helping. However, I do understand how it goes back to the other statement of "being afraid to speak." No one wants trolls - or friends - to "jump down their throat" and accuse them of something, misinterpret their words, call them racist -- or anything remotely insulting. Still, I've never really found myself liking the term "people of color" - it comes off... offensive, to me. It rubs me wrong and such. Though, that might be just me ^^;;

My next question was ironically going to ask if: it's a stereotype outside of the media for South Asians to be portrayed without angry? I mean, is it uncommon to see it outside of the household? Is it another one of the things that people try to pretend don't exist by keeping it "behind closed doors"?

Then you kind of answer that ^^;; I still don't understand how ANGER is negative - when it's natural. I get uncalled for anger (generally) being negative, but when the situation calls for? It's sad, to me, that "roles" (such as "Asian women being more docile than Western women" still haven't "broken" more. It takes so long for humans to progress in such things. Humans can progress in technology/medical, but not in things that are just as important? It's sad and I'm glad you want to break the stereotypes that do NOT fit you - or that just don't fit overall. It's a good thing, I think. -- which ties into my final comment -

Y'know. I really like the reminder of the "women" and "people" at the end. I think that's another definite thing that needs to be worked on. Not only the average stereotype and the racist hate that happens, but the ones that appear to be a more "subtle stereotype" or more "subtle racism" - such as the angry thing. Something that I wonder how many people take notice of until it's brought before their eyes. Sadly, it's one of how many things that need to be fixed? It'd be nice to at least live to see the day that many of these issues are fixed or in the near end of such "issues" (for lack of a better word). It's just... sad to me that growing up and hearing about "progress" on racism and only to grow up and see that - sure, there's been progress! But in comparison to what's still left? There's still so much to work on. So very, very much.

-- My main point is that I do agree.

I'm responding to the tag end of your first comment as well as this comment together since they're so similar. XD Anyway, here goes.

This (http://userpic.livejournal.com/64800112/1097047) is an icon that to my way of thinking is excellent at explaining away why people of color often worry about talking about race. It's not so much that we're worried about being called racist, though people do often try to get off the topic by going 'but what about reverse racism?!', but that other people will take it incredibly personally if you call them on making a racist comment.

So instead of listening to you explain how the comment was racist, or apologizing for it, they're going to start defending themselves and saying that they're not racist. Which is completely besides the point, and it only makes it harder to argue a question of racism because they're too busy going "BUT I'M NOT RACIST LA LA LA" to think about what the actual topic under discussion is.

There are tons (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/12/02/how-not-to-be-insane-when-accused-of-racism/) of excellent (http://community.livejournal.com/sex_and_race/296541.html) posts (http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/304316.html#cutid1) about why that happens and how to prevent it. It's not a case of taking sides. It's a case of knowing that the chances are that somebody who is white is going to get offended and not understand and be huffy about the fact that yes, they are privileged and you're not and demand to be called a good person for not being racist instead of letting you talk about the problem. A week ago, I would've said that nobody on my flist would have a problem hearing me talk about racism. Now, I'm not so sure, but I'm still leaving all my posts on racism and any -isms open because I'd rather know who I'm dealing with than assume that people are decent by default just because I haven't seen them behave badly.

Please don't think that this is like a war or anything. It's not about taking sides. It's about sometimes, just wanting to say something without having to give white people cookies for not being racist or having to explain for the thousandth time that no, yelling 'reverse racism' isn't actually a logical response to a discussion on racism.

People of color, as a term, sounds a little odd to me too because of the 'colored restrooms' crap but I'm thinking of it as a reclaimation thing like 'queer'. I know black people use it and don't get offended when white people use it, so it's not the n-word. Anyone can use it and I just need to adjust my sensibilities.

As for Asian anger, in Sri Lanka, girls get taught to not show it. Men can be angry and yell. Girls get told to modulate their voice but I also think that's a feminist issue, not just a race/culture one. If you're upset with someone, you still have to talk nicely and quietly and be polite. You don't get to yell, or raise your voice, or even sound harsh. I get told to make my tone more pleasant when I'm upset and want to just scream.

You know what I was thinking of when I typed that? An essay I did in high school about how in America, blacks got the right to vote fifty years before women did.

Except guess what that means? Black women couldn't vote, because see, they were women. It didn't matter that they were black; because they were women, they weren't covered under the Fifteenth Amendment.

You have no idea how stupid I thought that was when I read about it. You really don't. I don't even know how to express in words how ridiculous an idea that was to me, and still is.

*hugs* Hope my comments were helpful!

No problem xD I talk too much >.>;; And to spare you, I've edited my comment numerous times to shorten it - believe it or not.

The icon had me going all sparkly-eyed (mostly) on it. The "you're hurting me" is just ♥ People need to remember how HURTFUL it is, indeed. And also the "stop it". And, I don't think it ever killed anyone to apologize when they've done something hurtful - that should be tagged in, too. "An apology wouldn't hurt", but maybe that'd be pushing it?

For me, if I make a racist comment? I would like it to be pointed out so I can apologize big time and then clarify myself. To me, racism is racism - regardless of to whom.

"Too busy arguing" - I would think fixing the problem would be the best solution - by apologizing for it and explaining what was meant. Without ignoring what had been done and learn from it...

*reads links before going on* On the third point, "Don’t make it about you. " has me wonder. If someone accuses someone else of being racist - don't they want to know what was really meant? Or do most people only want an apology? And I don't mean a lengthy explanation - but just a simple, "I meant [insert explanation of whatever is normal for that person], I'm sorry I offended you." Or do they just want, "I'm sorry I offended you" and nothing else. Or is it okay to ask how it was racist - so long as it doesn't come off as - like you said "BUT I'M NOT RACIST LA LA LA". Which comes off as highly annoying, to me and yeah... o_O! Now the second link! xD Nice link. Now, final link. Interesting, I dare say.

"instead of letting you talk about the problem" I see that in a lot of things in and outside of racism. Though, most of the time I see it in a way to try to understand the other person - provided that it's an actual conversation and not one-sided -- UNLESS the person who brought it up wanted it to be simply their opinion/feelings/problem and not to have it... mmm... what's the word... countered with comparisons? Which is why I was reluctant to comment on my opinion on this - I didn't want you (or anyone) to take it in such a way - even if I am agreeing with a lot of what you say.

I'm glad you're keeping your posts and still making them. Touchy subject as it is. I do hope I didn't come across as one that didn't care to hear it, because that's not true and if it is, I sincerely apologize for that.

Please don't think that this is like a war or anything. Your thoughts on it? No! No no. Is it in other places I've seen? It comes off as such - with backup support for that a lot of the time, yes. Which, to me is sad - especially with your "It's not about taking sides", because I agree with that statement... Which is why I think some things should be handled as such. -shrugs- Racism is racism as far as I'm concerned.

Y'know, I THINK that's why - the 'colored restrooms' and such. I think that's why it sounds so ... odd. That could be it. Must be it.

Ahhh. I see. *nods* Thanks for that clear up (on th Asian Anger topic)

I remember learning that. I remember how I felt each time I learned of anything that I felt was "unfair" (such as what you stated) and seeing that even if that issue was "solved" (or being worked on) there was still... more. Still is.

Indeed, thank you *hugs*

My knee-jerk reaction is to tell people that they have the right to make whatever choices they want for their own lives. ie, if they want to be Christian, they can be Christian as long as they don't try to make me Christian. Or if they want to fit a stereotype, well, it's their life and their business.

...But yes, I can imagine that people would get annoyed with them for perpetuating an image that they're trying to discard.

For example, in one of my history textbooks, it discussed how 'educated blacks' often looked down on 'uneducated blacks' and said they were bringing the race down. That's actually an issue of classism, but it's also because of the negative stereotypes that they're trying to combat. You know the 'compliment' that someone is a credit to their race? It's like that. If you do badly, it reflects on your race. If you do well, it means you're rising above your race.

You're going to find more black/white examples of that than Asian examples, I think, but to take a different example, my cousin is going to be a doctor. I have a lot of doctors in my family. I'm not a fan of the stereotype of Asians as doctors, but it's a good profession so whatever, their choice.

I'm less pleased with the girl whose wedding I was a bridesmaid at, because she had an arranged marriage where she only met the guy a month before she was marrying him. That really disturbs me because I think that people should know each other before binding themselves together for life and arranged marriages are archaic and only help lock in with the image of Asian women as submissive but honestly, what can I do about it? Criticizing her for submitting to an arranged marriage wouldn't stop her from doing it. It'd just make me look like a jerk.

I think that's probably the most common reaction -- unless it's something hugely negative, people are lot more likely to let self-imposed stereotyping slide than call someone on it. I mean, really, who has the right to say how another person should live? If my friend is Indian and likes Bollywood movies and takes Indian class dances, bully for her. It's her life, and if that's what she honestly enjoys, fine.

I just don't want other people assuming that I am like her because we come from the same section of the continent, more or less.

You're "knee-jerk reaction" is what I predicted. *beams* I find the fight coming on both sides of the fence - one wants to stay the same, one wants to fight it. Then you see those, who I would put you into, that is in the middle. "Then can be [what/who they are] as long as they don't try to" push it on you. Which is *thumbs up* to me xD <3! *Smiling at that*

Ah yes! Good point about the thing you saw in your history textbooks. In fact, something similar was brought up on *gasp* MTV not too long ago. Even so much as those that speak properly vs those that use slang all the time and what's "real" and what's "fake/just being used to impress" and such things. I don't know if I'm "wrong" for feeling this way, but it's sad that it is often viewed in deal of ones race, rather than the individual themselves as an individual. (Of course, not to say that one can't be proud of who/what they are. Obviously.)

I hope your cousin is doing it because they want to and are happy.

Oh yes! That wedding! I was FUMING at that. Argh! I agree that people should know each other. I wish it wouldn't make you look like a jerk in her/their eyes, though. It... sucks. A fine line, I suppose.

"Lock in with the image of Asian women as submissive" - is that the main reason behind arranged marriages? So that the woman is the one who appears to be (or is) submitting? I've heard that most of the time the male does have a choice - or a major "part" in the choice - or at least has some say where as the woman usually has none (or very little) at all. I don't know how accurate it is for all those that have arranged marriages, though. Or does this also fall into 'obedient children' as well - to also follow a stereotype of (in this case) "Asian parents have obedient children"? I bring this up because recently a friend had brought up "Strict Asian Parents".

I mean, really, who has the right to say how another person should live? Excellent point/question to bring up. Touchy, touchy. (Not you, but that line). Ouch. Though, I think that if it's something that's hurting someone, then something should be said, of course. But again, what's determining/who's determining such things? Fine line - grey areas? Good point, hard question. Perhaps the safest way is advising or.. suggesting if the chance is there, but I guess "telling" isn't exactly fair either.

I just don't want other people assuming that I am like her because we come from the same section of the continent, more or less.

*nods* Right-oh. Well said. I think it's hard in a lot of ways for people to do that, as it's a way for people to associate people with others - as in where they're from and understanding that much. Of course, that also goes to show that those same people may forget that just because you may be FROM that area does not mean you are exactly like that. So-true. Though, for me, my associations with people tend to be more of what is a definite association or something xD LIke: You = RP, Psychoshipping, Ryuuji, Voltaire, Dresden Dolls -- [etc on the list]. But, yes, well said. You answered that more or less how I thought you would with throwing in some things for better understanding. Thank you.

I could easily think of South Asian women being angry in British television programmes (although I'm not making any claims about adequate representation here) but it's interesting that the scenes I remember as the strongest were ALL within the context of either a comedy sketch show (e.g. Goodness Gracious Me) or a semi-sitcom (e.g. The Kumars At Number 42) and the others were all from soap operas and were mostly variations on soap opera stereotypes.

I'm enjoying your thought-provoking posts very much. Thank you.

Really? That's fantastic! I mean, yes, comic anger is quite different to actual anger, but at least there's a little bit of stepping out of stereotypes. Unless you mean angry like a mother scolding her husband or son with the "Twenty years I cook and slave for you, aney amey, in my day we had more respect for our elders!" I'm not counting those. I mean real, justified anger, the kind where someone just takes a stand and sticks with it. Where a woman screams, or shouts, or coldly and angrily details all the way in which another person is a lying scumbag. That kind of anger. The really intense kind, not the parodied stereotype king.

Thank you for reading them and leaving feedback! I'm enjoying seeing all the reactions to them.

They were definitely playing with stereotypes in the comedies but they were doing so from the perspective of a group of extremely talented comic writers and actors exploring the comedic potential of behaviours in their own cultural communities which, most of the time, added enough subtlety to be subverting rather than merely reinforcing stereotypes.

The most well-known, recurring, angry women characters on the programme probably didn't fulfill your criteria because they were playing with the usual stereotype but, to me, they transcended it. Imagine two very proper Aunties who begin by comparing each others' families with faux politeness and then become increasingly angry until they're spitting explicit sexual insults at each other. The sketches also worked for the white audience, not because they were laughing at the stereotyped brown people but because the characters interlocked with very similar white British stereotypes of faux polite older women.

I'm told that Goodness Gracious Me was also shown in India where it achieved some popularity despite being seen as quite offensive in many ways, heh.

Bwahaha, yes!!

Once I was clearing up plates of fellow students, and a white guy at the table next to me started going on and on about having an Asian fetish. I was right behind him the entire time.

Hrm. I can't say about South Asian women on TV or in movies, but for Chinese ones, the only women who are allowed to get angry seem to be the "dominatrix/dragon lady" (see: Lucy Liu) and old women, who are allowed to be querulous and complaining. And neither is a good representation of true rage; it's rage channeled through filters to make it more acceptable and easier to brush off.

Regarding the last sentence of the t-shirt: what about the (non-asian-specific) stereotype of women defining themselves by the quality of their men?

Malcolm

XD There were a lot of statements that could be applied to both genders on that t-shirt, so I just took it as standing up for Asian guys with a final little twist of humor on how you don't usually get Asian chicks with Asian guys in porn.

But apart from that, what exactly is your question? I hadn't really thought that there was a stereotype about women defining themselves by their men. I mean, if you're going out with an idiot or a bigot, then yes, it'll reflect badly on you but it would do the same if that person was your friend or your sister.

I suppose you're right.

Malcolm

Hm. I'm perplexed by the "not Oriental" one; my understanding is that Asians are Oriental and Europeans are Occidental, it's more a directional thing (relative to the Aegean).

It took me a while to realise why I was having such trouble connecting to the idea that angry Asian women don't exist in media, because I thought that of course they do, I've seen lots. Thinking about it, it's a mixture of growing up on M*A*S*H, which features Koreans played by all kinds of different Asians, which I recognise is a problem in itself, but there are angry Asian women in that sometimes.

More recently, angry Asian women turn up in the television I watch, but then, lately just about all the television I watch is Japanese. (Because to the best of my knowledge, awesome live-action costumed superhero stories with epic plots and really, really hot guys with intense and complicated character dynamics is a genre that does not currently exist in English-language television production. So Japan owns my TV-watching time until further notice.)

If you are still wanting a picture of an angry Asian woman, and Japanese is acceptable, the series Kamen Rider Den-O features Hana-san, who is a woman, and who is angry really quite a lot.

That was a wonderfully beautiful piece, and I loved the opening that you had there as well.

I faced some of those stereotypes when I went overseas to work in Japan and South Korea, but it was from those who bought into it, telling me that oh, the women over there will love you, and getting a wife there will mean she'll take care of you no problem.

To which I replied with my "God you are stupid" look, and then they'd go into "Oh, just joking" mode. Which only intensified my look.

Also, here from the Asian Women Carnival #1.

Plus, I'm not entitled to Asian Women just because I'm some big white dork from Canada. I'm not entitled to anything, and it's really annoying to hear about how I should get this or that depending on my being Caucasian.

And yes, I agree with tevriel! Den-O has an awesome angry lady in Hana-san, who regularly punches the demons she works with.

That quote is awesome.

Rai's last role in Provoked was about a woman that set her husband on fire for repeatedly raping/beating her, but she even did that with tears rolling down her cheeks. I have no idea why angry South Asian women are so threatening that they can't even be shown on screen but they do not get to be angry. They pout, they cry, they are dramatically beaten and angsty, but there's no anger. No rage. Even when they get revenge, they do it woefully.

Wow. That is so maddening!

*cheers* What a great declaration to the world that we will be heard.

Also, I'm thinking, Maryam in Khuda Ke Liye is depicted as profoundly, justifiably, righteously angry at Sarmad. But that is the only representation of female anger I can think of off the top of my head.

I just wanted to say: Yes to the breaking of stereotypes. Thanks for this post. I find myself inspired by this Asian Women Carnival.

thank you for posting this.

I think you bring up lots of subtle stuff here. It's making me think about when cultural mores become stereotypes and how. Like differences in levels of confrontationalism among cultures and genders (which there are, sometimes--the whole "women must argue rationally and without emotion otherwise they're just too emotional" thing comes to mind)...how do I, as a white person, make a space for cultural conventions about expressing anger? How do I keep from stereotyping? How do I make room for different ways of expressing feelings? I'm not bringing this up for you to give me all the answers, just thinking aloud. Lots of thought-provoking stuff. I appreciate that.

Also, the Wellesley thing is AWESOME. I lol'ed at the "by the way, our men have penises. big ones too." I don't understand where the asexual Asian man thing came from. The Asian men I know are men, just like other men. Not eunuchs. Also, dude, lots of them are smokin' hot.

Anyway, thanks for this post. It was a great read on a lot of different levels.

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fear the angry asian girls

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